TOG - The Older Gamers

Pool Revolution: Cue Sports Screens

6 January 2009 |10 new shots posted.

Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop Official Movie 1

6 January 2009 |Like hardcore Japanese metal with your zombies? Check this out.

Hotel for Dogs Screens

6 January 2009 |3 new shots posted.

Kung Fu Panda Review

20 December 2008 |This movie-inspired action game is fun while it lasts, but sadly that isn't very long.

Broken Sword: Shadows of the Templars (Director’s Cut) Screens

20 December 2008 |2 new shots posted.

We Rock: Drum King Screens

20 December 2008 |13 new shots posted.

Williams Pinball Classics Screens

20 December 2008 |11 new shots posted.

On The Spot - 12/18/08

19 December 2008 |This week we take a look at the best OTS segments from 2008, as voted by YOU! Also, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and Deer Drive on the Wii... plus a ton of schwag to give away!

Martial Arts: Capoeira Fighters Screens

19 December 2008 |8 new shots posted.

Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip Gameplay Movie 8

19 December 2008 |Night time half pipe show: Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip.

Kirby’s Dream Land 3 Review

6 January 2009 |Kirby's Dream Land 3 [Virtual Console] (Wii)The last first-party release for the SNES returns, with a second chance to find an audience.

Interview: Eduardo the Samurai Toaster

6 January 2009 |Eduardo the Samurai Toaster (Wii)Tiny developer Semnat Studios talks about getting noticed by Nintendo.

Dead Rising Video

6 January 2009 |Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop (Wii)Rock out with some zombies.

Eduardo the Samurai Toaster Screenshots

6 January 2009 |Eduardo the Samurai Toaster (Wii)Check out the flashy WiiWare shooter.

Samurai Toaster Popping Onto WiiWare

6 January 2009 |Eduardo the Samurai Toaster (Wii)A visually unique 2D shooter is on the way.

Fragile Commercial

6 January 2009 |Fragile: Farewell Ruins of the Moon (Wii)Namco Bandai kicks off 2009 in style over in Japan.

Wii-kly Update: 01/05/09

6 January 2009 |One WiiWare game and one Virtual Console game added to Wii Shop Channel.

Wii U.S. Release Date Revision (01.05.09)

6 January 2009 |Want to know when you can waggle your Wiimote?

Zoda’s Revenge: StarTropics II Review

3 January 2009 |Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II (Wii)Mike is ready for another adventure.

Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millennium Review

3 January 2009 |Phantasy Star IV [Virtual Console] (Wii)Still regarded as one of the greatest Genesis RPGs ever made, the concluding installment in the core Phantasy Star franchise is definitely worth a look.

Jump Festa 2009 Report

24 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> Ah, Jump Festa. Only for you would I submit to being shuttled to the industrial wasteland of Chiba, ...

The Sights of Jump Festa 2009

23 December 2008 | <!-- Template_Screenshots --> The Sights of Jump Festa 2009 Our photo gallery of Japan's year-end otaku bash. Every year Weekly Shonen Jump, the largest comic magazine in the ...

Anonymous Source says Factor 5 has Shut Down

22 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> When last we heard of Factor 5 (developer of Lair and the Star Wars Rogue Squadron series), an ...

Holiday Videogame Sales Meltdown Part 2: Microsoft Reaches for the Masses

19 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> On last Thursday, the NPD Group divulged its report chronicling retail U.S. videogame hardware and software ...

Time Warner Buys 10 Million Eidos Shares

16 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> Time Warner may be inching closer to a controlling interest in British publisher Eidos, reports ...

CNNMoney Calls PS3 “A Sinking Ship”

13 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> Fallout from the November sales data continues to mount for Sony and its PlayStation family. CNNMoney's ...

Iwata Claims 800,000 Wiis Sold During Week of Thanksgiving

10 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--> <!-- for syndication --> Further legitimizing the popular "it prints money" .gif, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told Reuters that ...

December GH DLC Adds Eagles, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins

4 December 2008 | <!--Begin feature--><!-- for syndication --> Some popular rhythm game makers like to drip DLC announcements week by week. Not Activision, apparently. Today they've announced the full slate of downloadable songs ...

Spend Thanksgiving Weekend With MyCheats

27 November 2008 |<!--Begin feature--><!-- for syndication --> The ballgames are a bust (you really thought the Tigers were going to beat the Titans?), nothing is good on TV (A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving isn't on until later), and the ...

Animal Crossing: City Folk Comparison Video

20 November 2008 | <!--Begin feature--><!-- for syndication --> <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="319" ...

Release This: Moon, Elebits 2 Headline New Year’s Release Lineup

6 January 2009 |Gamasutra's regular round-up of worldwide video game releases, "Release This!", takes a look at every game title we know to be shipping to stores this week, in an exclusively compiled list. The following list covers all of the game ...

EVE Online Reports 45,186 Concurrent Users

6 January 2009 |CCP's EVE Online has reached a milestone, reporting a record peak of 45,186 concurrent users on its single-shard server. "It is truly a testament to our loyal fans that 5 years into EVE's existence we are still breaking records and ...

Xbox 360 Reaches 8 Million In Europe

6 January 2009 |Microsoft says that Xbox 360's 2008 Christmas sales doubled in Europe over the same period in 2007, marking the console's most successful season yet in the region. According to the company, this brings Xbox 360's userbase to eight ...

Best of FingerGaming: From Crayon Physics Deluxe to Edge

6 January 2009 |[Every week, Gamasutra sums up sister iPhone site FingerGaming's top news and reviews for Apple's nascent -- and increasingly exciting -- portable games platform, as written by editor Matt Burris and guest editor Danny Cowan.] This ...

PopCap’s Kapalka On Why Hexes Are ‘Repellent’ To Casual Gamers

6 January 2009 |As part of a larger interview with Gamasutra on Bejeweled Twist, PopCap's co-founder chief creative officer Jason Kapalka talks about how games with hexagonal grids, such as Microsoft's Hexic, can drive casual gamers away -- and ...

Used Game Prices See 23.7 Percent Drop In 2008

6 January 2009 |Resale prices for pre-owned video games were down by 23.7 percent in 2008 compared to the previous year, likely due to current economic conditions and disappointing sales numbers for the general retail industry. Pricing data site ...

Treasure’s Maegawa: Microsoft Asked For Radiant Silvergun On XBLA

6 January 2009 |Talking to Gamasutra as part of an in-depth new interview, Treasure CEO Masato Maegawa has revealed that Microsoft asked it to remake classic shoot'em-up Radiant Silvergun for XBLA -- though Treasure hasn't yet decided whether to ...

Gamasutra’s Holiday News: What You Missed

6 January 2009 |Gamasutra continued updating over the holidays, following breaking news and providing in-depth articles for those game professionals still working during that time. So, here's the full list of news and interviews run over the two ...

Gamasutra’s Holiday Originals: What You Missed

6 January 2009 |Were you out of town for the holiday? Never fear, because Gamasutra is rounding up all the feature-length articles the site posted over the Xmas break, from Yuji Naka and Popcap interviews through Ratchet & Clank postmortems and ...

Analyst: Big Media Buyouts Of Game Publishers? Not So Fast

6 January 2009 |The recession has brought with it plenty of increased buyout buzz, as weakened larger game companies seek smaller studios at low prices to help bolster their strategy. For example, at 2007's end, Atari, EA, A2M and Codemasters were ...

News: Microsoft boasts of best ever Xbox Christmas sales

6 January 2009 |Eight million units sold by end of 2008, as Xmas sales almost double 2007

News: Game Connection America discount offer draws to a close

6 January 2009 |Reduced price on all tickets to be withdrawn on January 9, for the event set to take place at GDC in San Francisco

News: Oxygen puts London studio up for sale

6 January 2009 |Budget publisher pulls out of internal development

News: Sony Japan to close factories and ‘major divisions’ - report

6 January 2009 |Company preparing for "sacred cow-slaying" as it takes drastic action to turn around business

News: Microsoft to pursue EUK for lost stock

6 January 2009 |Software giant said to be considering legal action to reclaim stock stranded in distributor warehouses

News: Thousands of jobs under threat at Microsoft

6 January 2009 |Company expected to announce cuts in next few weeks, EMEA to be affected heavily says report

News: “We’re going to see a lot of price pressure put on games,” says Molyneux

6 January 2009 |Lionhead Studio's boss comments on the past 12 months and speculates about the future

News: PlayStation 2 most played console of 2008

6 January 2009 |Sony's consoles bookend the listings with the PlayStation 3 coming in last

News: Next Mistwalker RPG for Xbox 360 cancelled

6 January 2009 |Sakaguchi project Cry On canned by publisher AQ Interactive

News: Microsoft testing PS Home for company meetings

6 January 2009 |Sony's virtual space being experimented with in efforts to reduce costs and global carbon footprint

Peter Moore Gets Feisty With Eurogamer

6 January 2009 |In the tight-lipped, image-massaged corporate world in which game company execs exist, it's refreshing to find someone who isn't afraid to speak his mind - even if he is calling out the gaming press in the process.Thus, we ...

“Sacred Cow Slayings” Rumored at Sony… Is PlayStation In Jeopardy?

6 January 2009 |UK newspaper The Times reports today that radical corporate upheaval is coming to Sony.Long-overdue cost-cutting moves will, according to company sources, result in "sacred cow-slaying measures" that will "will ...

Author Salman Rushdie Gamed While Dodging Decade-long Fatwa

6 January 2009 |There's no word on what he played, but Sir Salman Rushdie told UK newspaper The Times that he indulged in some computer games while dodging a fatwa issued by Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini from 1988 until 1998.Khomeini lodged the ...

How Grand Theft Auto Will Deal with the Recession (Humor)

5 January 2009 |Columnist Joe Blundo has a bit of fun with Grand Theft Auto (and other targets) in a recession - themed piece for today's Columbus Dispatch.As per Blundo, in order to deal with recessionary pressures, GTA will be re-invented as ...

How Grand Theft Auto Will Deal with the Recession (Humor)

5 January 2009 |Columnist Joe Blundo has a bit of fun with Grand Theft Auto (and other targets) in a recession - themed piece for today's Columbus Dispatch.As per Blundo, in order to deal with recessionary pressures, GTA will be re-invented as ...

Jack Thompson Takes His Case to U.S. Supreme Court

5 January 2009 |Jack Thompson is hoping that the United States Supreme Court will consider his appeal of the Florida Supreme Court ruling that disbarred him for life.In mid-December the anti-game attorney requested from the U.S. Superme Court an ...

Jack Thompson Takes His Case to U.S. Supreme Court

5 January 2009 |Jack Thompson is hoping that the United States Supreme Court will consider his appeal of the Florida Supreme Court ruling that disbarred him for life.In mid-December the anti-game attorney requested from the U.S. Superme Court an ...

Youthful Sonic Fan Gets Ban on Hedgehogs Overturned

4 January 2009 |A Lawrence, Kansas boy's fondess for iconic video game character Sonic the Hedgehog has led to a successful crusade to overturn a citywide ban on the critters.KTKA-49 reports that Judson King, 11, decided three years ago that he ...

New Illinois Law Bars Alcopops From Kid-centric Games

4 January 2009 |In Illinois, a new law restricts certain content in video games.However, unlike the 2005 game violence law championed by recently-indicted Gov. Rod Blagojevich, the video game industry is unlikely to mount a legal challenge in ...

Researchers Study File-Sharing Effects on Teen Norms & Values

3 January 2009 |Researchers at Sweden's Lund University are studying the ways in which interaction with file-sharing and social networking sites may affect how adolescents develop norms and values.Swedish news outlet The Local reports that ...

WET resurfaces, new screens dried off

7 January 2009 |Filed under: Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360, Action Sometimes news comes from where you least expect it. Case in point: middleware firm Illuminate Labs. The lighting tech company recently toweled off new screens for ...

Explore the wonderful world of old game patents

7 January 2009 |Filed under: Retro Technologizer has put together a really beautiful gallery of old electronic gaming patents, the oldest example of which you can see just above. You won't want to miss the early designs of R.O.B., wireless Atari ...

Skate 2 demo coming Thursday

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360, Sports We tend to think of demos as free gifts from the gaming overlords, which would make the Skate 2 demo coming on Thursday to Xbox Live a gift within a gift, like a Hickory ...

GameStop suspending Xbox trade-ins starting Feb. 9

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Microsoft Xbox, Business GameStop will no longer accept trade-ins on original Xbox games, systems, or accessories beginning Febuary 9, 2009. Although GameStop corporate wouldn't verify this information during its ...

Best of the Rest: Justin’s Picks of 2008

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Nintendo DS, PC, Sony PlayStation 3, Sony PSP, Nintendo Wii, Microsoft Xbox 360, Meta (about Joystiq) Spider-Man: Web of Shadows (X360) "Wait, did he just start his list with Spider-Man: Web of Shadows?" Yes, ...

Rumor: No Lego Harry Potter in ‘09

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Sony PlayStation 3, Nintendo Wii, Microsoft Xbox 360, Adventure A Eurogamer source claims that Traveller's Tales isn't making a Lego Harry Potter game this year. This follows rumors that a brickitized Potter title was ...

The best thing you’ll see today: Metal Gear voice cast improv

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Culture, Sony PlayStation 3 A mere five days into the new year and our sanity is being brought into question. Is this video after the break really what it seems to be? The principal voice cast of Metal Gear Solid 4 ...

SCEA: Killzone 2 demo exclusive to GameStop, on PSN after release

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Sony PlayStation 3, First Person Shooters Last week, GameStop revealed that gamers who pre-ordered Killzone 2 would get "exclusive" access to the game's demo. We contacted SCEA to see just how exclusive that deal is, ...

Amazon nukes Fallout 3 bundle prices today

6 January 2009 |Filed under: PC, Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360 Today's Amazon "deal of the day" bombs the prices on several limited edition Fallout 3 bundles. For starters, the Fallout 3 "Collector's Edition" for the Xbox 360 has its ...

Rumor: 360 a footnote in Microsoft’s CES keynote

6 January 2009 |Filed under: Microsoft Xbox 360, CES It's sounding like the only "megatons" at Microsoft's CES 2009 keynote will be the volume of hors d'oeuvres served beforehand. According to TechCruch, the company will focus primarily on Windows ...

Oz Rock Guitar Hero Pack For Australia Day

7 January 2009 |Excellent news for Guitar Hero: World Tour-owning fans of Aussie RAWK! Activision has revealed a three-song DLC pack featuring Silverchair, Wolfmother and The Vines (most definitely not pictured above) will be hitting the console ...

Congratulations To Our Blogging Brothers

7 January 2009 |Some good news for the wider Kotaku family with our sister sites blogging brothers Gizmodo and Defamer snagging nominations for the 2008 Weblog Awards. Yay them!

Eidos Caught Block-Voting On HYPER Awards

6 January 2009 |Eidos are understandably fans of their own games, but perhaps they've gone a little too far with this public display of affection. Australia's only multi-format games mag HYPER has called out the smitten publisher for constantly ...

Puzzle Quest Patch On the Way

6 January 2009 |TransGaming has gotten back to us with a response to our story last week about Puzzle Quest iPhone randomly deleting heroes. <!-- Gawker Tags/Categories: news, iphone, puzzle quest: challenge of the warlords, top, ...

Microsoft: We’ve Sold 28 Million Xbox 360s

6 January 2009 |The Redmond giant and relative newcomer to the console wars revealed that it has sold over 28 million Xbox 360s since launch. Yes, that's much more than the originals Xbox's lifetime sales. <!-- Gawker Tags/Categories: ...

So How Long Do People Play Wii Games For?

6 January 2009 |MTV decided to find out. Using the Wii's Nintendo Channel - which tracks the playing habits of 1.6 million Americans - they've yanked out some data on what games you're playing, and for how long. <!-- Gawker ...

U.S. Army Testing Out Recruitment ‘Arcades’

6 January 2009 |The U.S. Army wants you, gamers. It's testing a new kind of recruitment centre, one the New York Times is calling a "model for recruitment in urban areas," one that smacks of old-school arcades. <!-- Gawker Tags/Categories: ...

Have Video Games Gotten More Violent?

6 January 2009 |This article on GamesRadar has me wondering if violence in video games has gotten more intense - or is it just more vivid as a result of technology making blood brighter and guts more realistic. <!-- Gawker Tags/Categories: ...

Madballs Added To Game That Was About Angry Balls Anyway

6 January 2009 |<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H88P6SQOzX0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><embed ...

Sony Looking Forward To PS3 Exclusives In 2009, PSP Not So Much

6 January 2009 |What are Sony's top brass looking forward to from the PlayStation family in 2009? Console exclusives, naturally. And "making money." While the PS3 gets 'em all hot and bothered, the PSP is, at best, remembered. <!-- Gawker ...

MS: 360 Life-to-Date Sales Hit 28m

6 January 2009 |Microsoft proclaimed Monday evening that Xbox 360 has sold 28 million units worldwide through 2008 since its launch in November 2005. Microsoft director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live Aaron Greenberg told Edge in ...

Microsoft Tight-Lipped on Layoff Rumors

6 January 2009 |Microsoft will cut loose as many as 15K employees from its global workforce on January 15, according to unconfirmed reports that permeated the Web over the holiday break. Bloggers at Fudzilla said in late December that mass layoffs ...

360 Sells 8m in Europe

6 January 2009 |Microsoft's European gaming arm announced on Monday that Xbox 360 has sold 8 million consoles to date in EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) territories, citing sales estimates based on GfK-ChartTrack. A statement from the firm ...

Analyst: Wii to Pass PS2 Two-Year Sales

6 January 2009 |U.S. life-to-date sales of the Nintendo Wii surpassed the initial two-year sales of Sony's mega-successful PS2, Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter projected on Monday ahead of December sales data from NPD ...

Report: Major Sony Restructuring Brewing

6 January 2009 |Following Sony's December announcement that it will cut 16,000 permanent and temporary staff, a new report says the CEO of the Japanese-based PlayStation house will make even wider-reaching changes to the company to avoid ...

Mistwalker 360 RPG Cancelled

6 January 2009 |<!--paging_filter-->AQ Interactive has confirmed that its upcoming Xbox 360 RPG Cry On has been cancelled.Details on the game had remained thin ever since t was announced back in 2005. AQ Interactive says it closed the ...

Zavvi May Still Be Saved

6 January 2009 |<!--paging_filter-->Zavvi’s administrators claim that there are still a number of interested parties looking to buy the business.Zavvi – the UK's largest independent retailer of games, music and film goods – ...

Kojima Declares New Western Direction

6 January 2009 |<!--paging_filter-->Hideo Kojima has spoken of a thorough “structure, tools and staff” revamp taking place at Kojima Productions in order to realise the developer’s goal of penetrating the Western market. ...

90% of Champ Man Games Pirated

6 January 2009 |<!--paging_filter-->Beautiful Game Studios general manager Roy Meredith claims that the Championship Manager series has been afflicted by a 90% piracy rate. Speaking to CVG, Meredith says that the figure is not just a number ...

Halo 3 Most-Played Live Game of 2008

6 January 2009 |<!--paging_filter-->Microsoft’s Larry Hryb has posted on his semi-official blog the twenty most-played Xbox 360 games in 2008, with Halo 3 topping the list ahead of Call of Duty 4 and GTA IV.After a few days of number ...

Wii Sports Became #1 Selling Game of All Time! Surpasses SMB

7 January 2009 |Wii Sports has now passed sales of Super Mario Bros. (NES), making it the top selling console game of all time!

20 Most Anticipated Video Games of 2009

6 January 2009 |You're probably playing catch up with all the great games that came out the last few months, but you better hurry up. There's a lot more coming in 2009. You can expect everything from sequels to game series reboots to brand new ...

9 comic book characters to watch in 2009

6 January 2009 |The new year is wide open with comics firing on all cylinders — from the upper echelons of superhero comics to the vibrant field of modern comics.

Airport Vending Machines Selling DS Systems and Games

6 January 2009 |Best Buy vending machine let's you buy a DS system and a couple of games before takeoff.

Mirrors Edge Themed Photoshoot

6 January 2009 |It all started when I was driving home from work and listening to the following MP3 remix of “Still Alive”, the theme song for Mirrors Edge. I thought, wouldn’t it be cool to dress or cosplay Jannica as Faith...

Replica: Only person who can beat you is.. you

5 January 2009 |Ever tried playing yourself in a flash game? Well this is what this game is all about. It's an addictive game that makes you plan your movements in advanced to stay alive!

Huge Sonic Fan gets Ban on Hedgehogs overturned

5 January 2009 |11 year-old Judson King became so enamored with the blue video game character Sonic the Hedgehog, he decided he needed a real one.

Employers not hiring WoW, MMO or FPS gamers

5 January 2009 |There’s an imaginary level of immaturity that comes with game playing, a less-than-serious aura more identifiable with kids and older teens. Many gamers realize this, and would rather not reveal their game playing habits just as ...

Gaming addiction: a symptom hiding the real problem?

4 January 2009 |The National Institute on Media and Family releases an annual report card for the gaming industry, and this year's report painted a very rosy picture indeed. Unfortunately, those findings were somewhat tainted by the knowledge that ...

101 MORE things we’ve learned from games

4 January 2009 |Due to the positive feedback for our original “101 things” article, I’ve created a sequel to tickle your imagination bone.

PS2 the Most Played Console In 2008

6 January 2009 |An anonymous reader writes "In terms of console usage, the aging PS2 still leads the competition, according to data from US research firm Nielsen. Data the company compiled between January and October 2008 shows that the PS2 ...

Why Game Developers Should Support OS X and Linux

6 January 2009 |kevind23 writes "Although Mac OS X and Linux have a small (but growing) market share, Jeff from Wolfire Games argues that supporting non-Windows platforms can lead to a huge increase in game sales. Using their popular game Lugaru ...

Apple IIe Emulator Released For the Wii

4 January 2009 |fortapocalypse writes "Yohanes Nugroho just released WiiApple, an Apple IIe Emulator for Wii. While the sound doesn't work, some games are playable (he shows a screenshot of Epyx Winter Games as well the execution of a program he ...

“Necessary Complexity” in Online Games

4 January 2009 |Massively is running a story about Google's short-lived virtual environment, Lively. The article examines why Lively shut down so quickly, and how its simplicity and its attempts at user-friendliness did more harm than good. ...

“Necessary Complexity” in Online Games

4 January 2009 |Massively is running a story about Google's short-lived virtual environment, Lively. The article examines why Lively shut down so quickly, and how its simplicity and its attempts at user-friendliness did more harm than good. ...

Pushing Linux Adoption Through Gaming

3 January 2009 |An article on CNet questions the viability of using games as part of a strategy to increase Linux adoption. It points out a blog post by Andrew Min which suggests: "... Linux companies also need to start paying attention to the ...

How Sony’s Development of the Cell Processor Benefited Microsoft

2 January 2009 |The Wall Street Journal is running an article about a recently released book entitled "The Race for a New Game Machine" which details Sony's development of the Cell processor, written by two of the engineers who worked on it. They ...

CCP Considering Mobile Apps for EVE Online

2 January 2009 |Massively reports on statements from EVE Online developer CCP Games indicating that they'll be working with MIT students to see if they can create mobile applications that will interact with EVE. They specifically mention things ...

A Look At the Growth of MMOs In 2008

1 January 2009 |Zonk writes with news of a collaboration between Massively and GamerDNA to analyze the state of MMO player bases for 2008. Sifting through the data brought out several interesting trends. For example, Age of Conan took a ...

The Best Games of 2008

1 January 2009 |As the year comes to an end, most game sites are putting up lists highlighting their favorite games of 2008. Gamasutra is no exception, but they've nicely consolidated a variety of lists, and included some of their reasons and ...